Rant-ology!

pithy-rants of Renée Roehl.com site

why women don’t date nice (entitled) guys

Years ago, a male friend bemoaned that women liked the ‘bad boys’ but only wanted to be friends with ‘nice guys,’ like him. “I clean up the snot and tears those guys leave,” he said. “I do the work, he gets the benefits. Then she falls in love with one of those guys all over again.”

Yes. That’s how it looked to him. Except, this “nice guy” was a “nice” player; he fell in love with being in love, not women. He’d write breathtaking love letters, buy thoughtful presents, speak intelligentsia, woo and delight until one day that ‘she’ seemed tarnished. No actual woman could live up to his entitled dreams of perfectionism.

When he fell out of love he always thought ‘she’ was flawed, not his unrealistic ideals. His usual time span was two years before he’d hurt her with an affair throwing over the artist for the professor, the torch singer for the judge, the writer for the dancer.

Such a nice guy!

Too often the myth that women like assholes or in their submissive heart of hearts want a master continues to be written and is frequently used to justify men’s bad behavior by telling women what they like and don’t like. But analysis doesn’t bear this falsity out. In various studies, being kind, sensitive and trustworthy are often at the top of women’s list. No! Really!?

Entitled people often think they know what others want, need or even think. They’ll insist you like things you don’t or tell you you’ve thought things that you haven’t. Arrogantly projecting their needs, fears or judgments about you onto you is common. If you protest, you’re wrong, too sensitive.

Privileged people can’t know what they don’t know and they don’t know what’s “below” them. The wealthy, many conservatives, whites, males, adults to children, middle age-ers to seniors, being born in the U.S. vs. Haiti, etc. often breed a class of people who only know what they would do, what they need and don’t have much compassion for what they haven’t experienced or don’t understand. They demand others pull themselves up by their bootstraps without realizing those others may not even have boots.

Some of these entitled “nice guys” delude themselves that they are nice, but heartfelt kindness consists of more than one action, is deeper than one aspect of personality. The comic character above sees only his personal slant while being blind to his blanket judgment of “all women.”

Regardless of gender or age, we’re all looking for a bit more kindness, understanding. We want to be seen as we are, not as we’re told we are.

If you’re not getting the attention you need from women maybe instead of deciding what they’re doing or not doing, you might turn your gaze to yourself.

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22 thoughts on “why women don’t date nice (entitled) guys

  1. Finally divorced on said:

    By far the most priviledged class in the world, the prevalence of White Male self-pity perplexes me. I see it as an additional expression of agression and selfishness: An enhancement to winning and domination.

    He’s U.S. foreign policy, and Guantanimo Bay.

    Or the put-upon nice guy. The guy who parades as hen-pecked, who actually bullies his wife and kids secretly at home. The one who baits his partner and then stages her reaction for an audience. Or the one who abuses his children–who poses as their victim (and his wife’s) for social services, police, and judges. It’s all part of the same spectrum–your example the serially false lover who may even believe he’s the victim is just right.

    –And it works! They are persuasive.

    They can’t empathize with others (as you describe perfectly) but they need to win the lion’s share of empathy. The victim-poseur also covers and excuses his bad behavior that way: It’s a lie of the facts and the sequence of events. It’s a stroll through his own delusion.

    He is on the same spectrum as the fellow of your last post on gaslighters. Your observations are spot on. Thanks so much. Forgive me for writing so much I’m just amazed by your wisdom and accuracy. I recognize what you’re saying and haven’t seen it elsewhere.

  2. Please don’t apologize for your insight and experience which I find quite valuable. I completely agree about white male entitlement (you used self-pity) as an extension of the things you mention. The patriarchal culture has harmed as many males as females. Unfortunately, males act out way more often and cause far more harm to women, children and the planet at large.

  3. insightful,. on the spot. you are smarter than most guys who think that things must work the way they imagined it would instead of how it really does according to dynamics of life and how the universe actually unfolds. most guys moan as they fail and become bitter of people they call “jerks” instead of taking the effort of studying the way things work. this article states clearly why in a woman’s point of view that “nice” guys are just entitled. nice argument. it can be compared to a poor fella complaining about how the rich people opress them yet they dont take effort to learn why the rich become rich in the first place.

  4. by the way you might also want to read one of my latest article:
    http://wizardcorpse.com/for-the-stiff-guy-only-affection-from-an-alpha/
    there I expalined the dynamics of why it is still important for alpha male to show a side of softness for motional connection and pair bonding so the reader will know how to develop his image in his partner’s amygdala and appeal to her “love hormones”. in this article I clarified that even the stereotypical assholes are actually “nice” in their own way.
    GodSpeed
    in the mean time Ill leave your name on our site’s Blogroll

  5. Pingback: male entitlement mentality towards the opposite sex | Optimum Awareness Leads to Optimum Conrol in Your Life

  6. Thanks for your comments and having me on the blogroll. And yes, “steroptypical assholes” probably do have one “nice” side but one’s just not enough.

  7. Some Black Guy on said:

    There is wisdom in this post, with that being said; as a general rule of thumb my dating pool consist of mosty close female friends. Does that mean all my friends are expected to have a run with me? No, it simply means there’s generally a connection and genuine compassion for one another.

  8. vincent on said:

    intersting, i’m a nice guy, i DO empathize with others, i DON’T feel entitled to anything EXCEPT= a fair shake. the ONLY reason nice guys are angry is because 1) we DON’T get a fair chance with the jerks. 2) JERKS get to have sex with as many women as they want, but the “nice guy” can barely ever even get a first date!3) no s&&t sherlock!-were men too! so we’d like to be able to die and remember “just one single time” that we were able to have sex without having to pay a dirty hooker for the “honor” of sex. 4) WE WANT COMMITMENT/RELATIONSHIPS! wanna know the difference between “friendship” and “relationships”? IT’S SEX! i’m tired of all these lies about my kind already! are alot of us angry? WERE ENTITLED TO BE ANGRY WHEN WE’VE BEEN SPOON-FED SINCE BIRTH (by women by the way) that if we do x/y/z/, we’ll be rewarded with x/y/z/, AND IT NEVER EVER EVER HAPPENS!!!! i’ll use an analogy here: if you pay for a chair, follow all the instructions on how to build it, and at the end you get an unuseable chunck of plastic, would you be “happy/grateful” about it? i think not! nice guys have been sold a pack of lies since birth, and you women are always wondering “why do nice guys turn into jerks?” BECAUSE THATS WHAT IT TAKES TO GET YOU IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  9. Andy K on said:

    Sure, there are short-sighted “nice” guys out there. However it’s true that the assholes get more women and sex than the rest of us, because they inherently have a number of attractive qualities (dominance, confidence, strength, experienced with women, etc) at least in the short-term, and at least to a small % of impressionable women (I would assume most women notice their faults once they’ve dated for a while)

    I don’t believe that “nice” guys are unattractive, but just being nice does not make you attractive. Males have to _work_ for this in most cases (some combination of: build muscle and become toned, learn to play music and/or get some interesting hobby, become financially/socially successful, learn to make people laugh and develop your personality, pay for at least the first couple of dates, not to mention building the courage to act on a woman you’re attracted to as our culture expects men to make the bold first moves and face rejection, while most guys seem to have low self-esteem when it comes to relationships – many of whom because the girl they had a crush on laughed in his face or called him a creep?) otherwise you’re just another boring man walking down the street. What is romance? A man impressing a woman with romantic efforts and small gifts. Most hetero guys I’ve seen didn’t expect much effort from their partners to romance them other than loving them back, being receptive, saying “thank you” and smiling.

    Meanwhile, women seem to be gauged by men more by physical attractiveness, which is really unfair on unattractive women (body image issues) and very attractive women (not being respected for their efforts at work/etc) but essentially gives the other girls a much easier ride than the men.

    • Thanks for the thoughtful response.

      I believe much of the problem is that 1) many men make statements about their pain in the form of blaming women instead of just being in pain, and 2) many men decide they know what women like or want. Not every women feels or believes one thing, nor does every man.

      I liked your observation that many hetero guys don’t expect romantic efforts. I wonder what would happen if men knew what “little things” they liked and asked for them.

  10. jordie g on said:

    Wow… I am a male officially diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. And people, dont attack me beacause of my disorder. If you were hurt by a Borderline, then Im sorry. I hope you recover. But aaaaannnyway, I can understand what you are saying because the people (nice guys) that you described have extremely intense emotions and can be extremely emotionally draining to those around them. I have had people call me an emotional vampire. hahaha. Well, its not really funny. But anyway, yeah. I would not say that I am dangerous or manipulative in any way, but I know that I am not the most easy person to be with. Im not your typical run of the mill traditional male. I am quite sensitive, emotional, and can get easily offended by certain things that are supposed to be insignificant to other people let alone a “real man”. I agree with your disclosure on the toxic people that you have mentioned above. But I am definitley not a conservative rich entitled “white male”. I cannot stand the patriarchy. It hurts men just as much as it hurts women. If you do not conform to their beliefs such as being a “traditional male”, then you are their enemy. I could go on and on. But in my case, it is not that simple to “man up” and walk away from a genetic imbalance coupled with traumatic events that happened in childhood that also comes along with growing up in an invalidating environment. These circumstances do not discriminate regardless of your gender, ethnicity, economic class etc. It can be hell for anyone and even those around them. Chemical substitutes such as medications and Dialectical Behavioral Therapy very effective for these people. Well, at least in my case. I just think that if a man is emotionally unstable, society should not be so quick to judge him as a dangerous creep or a whiny little pussy. He could have some really deep issues that we could not possibly understand unless we were to live in his shoes and actually feel what he feels. He may very well be an “emotional vampire” and if he is too difficult to handle, then it is best that you cut ties just for your own wellbeing. I just think society needs to be more understanding towards these issues but definitely not enabling.

    • Sorry to hear about your childhood trauma and the disorder that came out of that. Yes, I agree, the patriarchal paradigm harms both genders and every species of…anything on this planet along with the planet itself. Deciding things about others is not deep listening, hell, it’s not even listening. More on deciding things about others can be found in this other blog post if you’re interested: i’m the decider–not http://rekedar.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/not-bees/ Be well, Jordan.

  11. Zap on said:

    Think i just stumbled upon the feminist version of Stormfront O.o

  12. All too true. Thanks for writing this thoughtful piece.

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